First layer problem

[mbunjes]

 

I hope the learned participants of this forum can help me with a baffling (for me) problem.
I can’t get a reasonable Z-Offset dialled in. I do the probe-offset with the paper, everything looks fine, I start a test print and this is the result : (The right side is were the print starts) : that is way too low to my thinking.

 

I did some babystepping and ended up with the left side, which looks reasonable.
After accept and save_config I then started  a print for real and the print wouldn’t stick to the bed at all, the z-offset is obviously way too high. I’m confused now,
maybe the EM needs adjusting ? But how to do that if I can’t even get a decent first layer ?

The printer is a Trident 350 with TAP and a brand new build plate from oseq which comes highly recommended.
The filament is Esun ABS+ black which I always use for everything.

 

 

[claudermilk]

I'll start with some dumb, obvious questions. Are you running z_tilt_adjust before starting the job? Are you doing a bed mesh? Is the nozzle clean before tapping? What speed are you running for the first layer? Is the filament dry? 

[mvdveer]

A couple of suggestions as this is an issue with your first layer squish. ( I too print with eSun ABS+)

It looks like the nozzle is too close to the bed, therefore the wavy pattern.

This can happen when you do a homing sequence, Z-Tilt and Mesh whilst the bed is heating as it expands and detracts during the heating cycle. It also can happen when you do the paper test on a cold bed, and do not adjust the Z-Offset for the heat expansion.

1. Home the printer

2. Heat your build plate to the desired level (90 - 110 for ABS+) and the nozzle to 150 (for TAP)

3. Let it settle at that heat (10-15min) = HEATSOAK

4. Home again

5. Do a Z-Tilt adjust

6. Now do a Z or Probe Calibration with the paper test or feeler gauge

7. Save Config

8. Do the Ellis first layer squish for EACH and EVERY filament. (I am assuming you have run through this guide - I have been in this hobby for some time now, and after each maintenance cycle on the printers - I redo the whole Ellis Tuning sequence - It is worth it)

Add the above sequence (1 - 5) to your START_PRINT /PRINT_START macro. Good place to start to get this going is "A better print start macro". There is a macro for the Trident and this includes a 5min heatsoak.

Hope this helps.

 

[mbunjes]

7 hours ago, claudermilk said:

I'll start with some dumb, obvious questions. Are you running z_tilt_adjust before starting the job? Are you doing a bed mesh? Is the nozzle clean before tapping? What speed are you running for the first layer? Is the filament dry? 

Yes, I run a z-tilt before every print. I have installed KAMP and it works a treat. I have made a macro that brings the nozzle to the front so I can clean it easily and I run this before every print. The first layer prints max at 30mm/s. The filament is a new.

[mbunjes]

9 hours ago, mvdveer said:

1. Home the printer

2. Heat your build plate to the desired level (90 - 110 for ABS+) and the nozzle to 150 (for TAP)

3. Let it settle at that heat (10-15min) = HEATSOAK

4. Home again

5. Do a Z-Tilt adjust

6. Now do a Z or Probe Calibration with the paper test or feeler gauge

7. Save Config

This is exactly what i do with a heated bed at 105 for 30 minutes.

I've done the Ellis tuning guide but find it easier to print one big layer instead of the small patches, you can see the result in the photo. Looks ok after baby stepping but doesn't work. 

I already have the "better print start macro" in place. Works very well. No, the problem is the inconsistency between this test print and an  actual print : test print ok, real print rubbish. I can print reasonably well but with a bit too much squish.

Edited December 7, 2024 by mbunjes

[mvdveer]

The magnets on your Tap hasn’t come loose have they?

[mbunjes]

3 hours ago, mvdveer said:

The magnets on your Tap hasn’t come loose have they?

I thought of that but everything feels tight, no play in the toolhead. I'm going to dial in EM again today, see if it makes a difference.

[mbunjes]

Well, no play in the toolhead he said.
Maybe not but when I dismantled the Stealthburner and CW2 to look a bit further I discovered a crack in the CW2 main body where the lower part of the SB attaches.

So in the bin and I decided to upgrade the whole configuration. At the moment it is SB with Rapido, CW2, SB2040 CAN and TAP. I would like to upgrade the TAP to an eddy current solution so that means Beacon or Cartographer. Beacon is way too expensive and USB only so that leaves the Cartographer. I noticed that the Klipper issues were solved. Since the Trident is my only printer and I can't print anything I'm looking for a printless solution for a new toolhead. I quite like the idea of the Galileo 2 ( I can buy the printed parts) maybe coupled with a XOL toolhead ? ( I would like to be able to print PLA as well) (also printed parts available). Or maybe the aluminium CNC Sherpa mini ? I don't know however if these are viable options.
I would like to hear the opinion of the forum members.

Edited December 17, 2024 by mbunjes

[claudermilk]

I've been very happy with my Galileo 2 since I installed it in the Trident. I don't think I've had a single issue with it.

As  to Cartographer, you have seen @mvdveer's thread on that topic? It might be worth reading before you jump.

[mbunjes]

Yes, but I understand the Klipper issue is solved. Do you use the Galileo with a Stealthburner?

[mvdveer]

5 hours ago, mbunjes said:

Yes, but I understand the Klipper issue is solved. Do you use the Galileo with a Stealthburner?

Up to this point, my Cartographer issues remain as I am not keen jumping onto a beta branch. I use the Galileo2 extruder with stealthburner on the Tridents - never looked back

[mbunjes]

Damn, I don't feel like converting to USB for the beacon.

[mvdveer]

21 minutes ago, mbunjes said:

Damn, I don't feel like converting to USB for the beacon.

That's why I stuck with cartographer this long. Even if I have to wait for the updated firmware and software to be released, it still means recalibrating all 4 machines from scratch. Thus may as well switch to beacon though running the USB cable in the Umbilicus is extra bulk.

I am sure the issue will be fixed with the latest firmware. @KrauTech is pretty active in the cartographer arena and does excellent work. It is a personal choice. Won't be switching anything out before the weekend either.

[mbunjes]

So, would you advise waiting till the issue is fixed ? 

[mbunjes]

It s probably a good idea to follow the discord channel.  (Not a fan of discord)

[mvdveer]

3 hours ago, mbunjes said:

So, would you advise waiting till the issue is fixed ? 

Yes I would - will save you heaps of frustration

3 hours ago, mbunjes said:

It s probably a good idea to follow the discord channel.  (Not a fan of discord)

Will update my thread as soon as I know more

[mbunjes]

So that's the probe sorted. (more or less)
Now for the rest. Is there a solution (that you know of) with better airflow than the SB that can use this probe ?  I've never been able to print PLA with the SB and I'm looking for something with better airflow that also can take a Rapido and the Galileo 2. 
Also keeping in mind that I can't print anything right now.

[mvdveer]

From what I have read, the XOL toolhead seems great. (Has both CPAP and non-CPAP versions and fits most hotends and extruder combinations.)

The Eva toolhead (the original VZBot solution)  has various fan options you can choose from for cooling. (Fits most hotends and extruders) There are plenty of beacon/cartographer probe mounts available on printables.

However I run a Goliath toolhead with CPAP and a Hextrud Low extruder on the VZBot with a beacon probe (same footprint as cartographer)- Plenty of airflow there.

Hope it helps

[atrushing]

8 hours ago, mbunjes said:

So that's the probe sorted. (more or less)
Now for the rest. Is there a solution (that you know of) with better airflow than the SB that can use this probe ?  I've never been able to print PLA with the SB and I'm looking for something with better airflow that also can take a Rapido and the Galileo 2. 
Also keeping in mind that I can't print anything right now.

The Mini Stealth also has a version that can fit the Galileo SA extruder. It has the same mounting pattern as the Orbiter 2.0 extruder so you would be able to use that core piece.

[mbunjes]

I've decided on the XOL, I have to order the printed parts (no printer, duh) but I found a vendor that ticked all the boxes.