Cartographer Probe

[MrSprinklz]

1 hour ago, netzwerg said:

I understand, it's quite accurate, but that accuracy is against the steel sheet, not against the surface of the PEI coating?

I mean if PEI coating isn't very even, first layer can still be tricky? Or am I missing something here such as PEI coatings are usually quite even, even on cheap chinese plates?

With Beacon/Cartographer contact, you are essentially measuring the thickness of your pei sheet. I think most would advise against cheap pei for adhesion reasons as well as maybe the thickness inconsistency if that is actually a problem, I don't know enough about the process to comment on that. Either way, I think thickness variation of the pei is very likely less than layer height thickness anyway and therefore not that important in practice. 

[Yezariael]

6 hours ago, netzwerg said:

I understand, it's quite accurate, but that accuracy is against the steel sheet, not against the surface of the PEI coating?

I mean if PEI coating isn't very even, first layer can still be tricky? Or am I missing something here such as PEI coatings are usually quite even, even on cheap chinese plates?

Speed is definitely impressive.

If you PEI is not even you will have problems no matter what probe you use. Usually you do something like 5x5 or 7x7 with probes like TAP which will not cover uneven PEI. I do 15x15 with Beacon in much less time and never had problems.

[Dirk]

6 hours ago, netzwerg said:

that accuracy is against the steel sheet, not against the surface of the PEI coating?

Right! I think you are on to something....

 

7 hours ago, netzwerg said:

I am super happy with the TAP probe

And if you are happy, may god give you a very happy, fruitful and long life together.

 

I will keep my Cartographer and never ever look back at TAP

 

[Penatr8tor]

I think that the industry has evolved to a point where significant dimensional variations in products like coated spring steel build plates are much less common. The process of rolling sheet steel has been perfected so that the sheets now vary by less than .001". They're flat, uniform, made in abundance and cheap.  On the other hand, the coating process is highly dependent on the method used. It could involve a person manually operating a spray gun or an automated robot. As a result, the uniformity of the coating on a plate can vary significantly based on the chosen process.

One thing for sure... these probes also have touch now so maybe uniformity of the coating isn't that much of a concern.

Not being a fanboy just saying it's also got TAP-ability.

[DerHolgi]

I did install the Cartographer and it worked very well.

But then, i was thinking it is annoying to have different profile for different plates. (Z-offset)
So i ordered a ChaoticLab TAP mount and designed a mount to mount the cartographer on the lower back of the TAP mount.
Now i do the Z probing with the TAP and the QGL and mesh probing with the Cartographer.
I'm very happy with this, as i no more need to take care about Z-offset adjustment.

Edited May 17, 2024 by DerHolgi

[Dirk]

8 minutes ago, DerHolgi said:

Now i do the Z probing with the TAP and the QGL and mesh probing with the Cartographer.

Very cool.

Can you share with us how you did that in the configuration? 

I am sure there are a lot of people wanting to do similar to what you have done.

[DerHolgi]

1 hour ago, Dirk said:

Very cool.

Can you share with us how you did that in the configuration? 

I am sure there are a lot of people wanting to do similar to what you have done.

Hm...
I think it was like so.

First i installed and configured the TAP Probe and tested it.
Then i commented out the TAP configuration and did the Cartographer installation and configuration.
Then i mixed it.
The trick was to not use "endstop_pin: probe:z_virtual_endstop" in the stepper_z configuration, as it looks like the "z_virtual_endstop" is hard-coded in the cartographer software.
Instead i assign the TAP as endstop_pin like so:

endstop_pin: !EBBCan: PB9
position_endstop: -0.536
#endstop_pin: probe:z_virtual_endstop
position_max: 310
position_min: -5
homing_speed: 10
second_homing_speed: 5
homing_retract_dist: 0

I seams that the "z_virtual_endstop" is hard-coded in the cartographer software.

Here my Backup Repository.
https://github.com/DerHolgi/Voron24-Klipper-Backup

Edited May 17, 2024 by DerHolgi

[Dirk]

Thank you again @DerHolgi 

Looks like I have to print a new SB and a TAP to try this out

So I can compare which is better - voron-TAP with Carto or Carto TAP with Carto  

[therm_virtual0y]

9 hours ago, DerHolgi said:

I did install the Cartographer and it worked very well.

But then, i was thinking it is annoying to have different profile for different plates. (Z-offset)
So i ordered a ChaoticLab TAP mount and designed a mount to mount the cartographer on the lower back of the TAP mount.
Now i do the Z probing with the TAP and the QGL and mesh probing with the Cartographer.
I'm very happy with this, as i no more need to take care about Z-offset adjustment.

I also found it annoying to have to remember to change models before a print.  It’s really the only downside.  With the Beacon being able to act like tap, maybe it’s possible to automate z with it

[KrauTech]

Mmm I have a brand new CNC tap kit sitting there right next to my shiny new cartographer.. should I try this

[Dirk]

Okay... 

1 hour ago, therm_virtual0y said:

I also found it annoying

10 hours ago, DerHolgi said:

it is annoying to have different profile for different plates.

 

I am now in the closed Beta testing for the AUTO-Z / TAP for Cartographer. 

Unfortunately I am not allowed to share any pictures or videos. But I can say this about the AUTO Z..

Once you set up the TAP with Cartographer (one time settings), you can use CARTOGRAPHER_CALIBRATE, where it calibrates its own offset depending on the plate you put under it. So there will be no need anymore to load a model. No more papers, no more measuring. 

This means that all you have to do, is run the calibration (takes 2 seconds) at the selected temperature, every time you change a bed. You can even consider doing this before every print, which will be similar to what you do right now with your TAP.

Only, without the additional weight, the move in your toolhead which clearly shows with every resonance test and the extra hardware / electronics... Did I say extra hardware?

So it will make your CL-TAP obsolete. 

[Dirk]

36 minutes ago, KrauTech said:

should I try this

If you like experimenting, you could, why not. 

I am going to do it to compare it with carto - tap.

Others do it cause they want to be sure

You can do it to replace the z probe dysfunction of the eddy probe

 

[Dirk]

8 hours ago, DerHolgi said:

I seams that the "z_virtual_endstop" is hard-coded in the cartographer software.

Cartographer's script is open source. parts opensourced from Beacon / Annex.

https://github.com/Cartographer3D

You can find it as Cartographer.py in the Cartographer directory on your Pi. (And as IDM.py)

I do not know Python. I just looked inside Cartographer.py and could see that Cartographer assumes that z_virtual_endstop is indeed connected to a pin, which is probably defined in the firmware. I am sure ones that know Python, can modify things as such that it works differently.

But I think the solution @DerHolgi offers is simple and easy.

[KrauTech]

2 hours ago, Dirk said:

Okay... 

I am now in the closed Beta testing for the AUTO-Z / TAP for Cartographer. 

Unfortunately I am not allowed to share any pictures or videos. But I can say this about the AUTO Z..

Once you set up the TAP with Cartographer (one time settings), you can use CARTOGRAPHER_CALIBRATE, where it calibrates its own offset depending on the plate you put under it. So there will be no need anymore to load a model. No more papers, no more measuring. 

This means that all you have to do, is run the calibration (takes 2 seconds) at the selected temperature, every time you change a bed. You can even consider doing this before every print, which will be similar to what you do right now with your TAP.

Only, without the additional weight, the move in your toolhead which clearly shows with every resonance test and the extra hardware / electronics... Did I say extra hardware?

So it will make your CL-TAP obsolete. 

I'll just wait for carto-tap. Its no biggy. Hopefully the closed beta is quite fruitful!

[Dirk]

43 minutes ago, KrauTech said:

Hopefully the closed beta is quite fruitful!

It's fun to try new stuff out

The warnings about using an old PEI plate, and all at your own risk is a bit less cool, but still fun!

And don't get me wrong... If you have the time and have a tap already you aren't going to use otherwise, why not!?
If you don't have to spend your time to more useful things that is.

 

[Penatr8tor]

16 hours ago, therm_virtual0y said:

With the Beacon being able to act like tap, maybe it’s possible to automate z with it

That's what I'm hoping.

They said May and we're getting close to the end of the month so, hopefully we'll get something soon.

[Dirk]

28 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

They said May and we're getting close to the end of the month

I was thinking the same.

I can't wait to see all those videos with bacons trying to tap eggs...

 

But I guess they must've run into a new problem or are waiting for their bacon and egg video to reach its full potential.

[KrauTech]

On 5/18/2024 at 10:08 AM, Dirk said:

It's fun to try new stuff out

The warnings about using an old PEI plate, and all at your own risk is a bit less cool, but still fun!

And don't get me wrong... If you have the time and have a tap already you aren't going to use otherwise, why not!?
If you don't have to spend your time to more useful things that is.

Yeah no wrong.

This is my first voron build and I've already made alot of changes so it's hard following the build guide/manual lol

 

I'm just gonna finish it off the next few days, atleast get it printing and then move back to doing mods

 

My luck, carto-tap will be good to go by then haha

[Dirk]

On 5/18/2024 at 2:40 PM, Penatr8tor said:

They said May

They (sort of) kept their word. It was released just a few hours before the end of may. I have already seen a few images of first layers.
No tapping eggs videos yet though.

[Penatr8tor]

22 minutes ago, Dirk said:

They (sort of) kept their word. It was released just a few hours before the end of may. I have already seen a few images of first layers.
No tapping eggs videos yet though.

Thanks, I was looking around the other day but I was probably a bit early.

It's going to be fun to try out.

[KrauTech]

It's out now

 

https://docs.beacon3d.com/contact/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2w9s-nWEG_4djAj69dSv1Vke_jNg-PUJMlFrv03Xdm_STWE63z9ZzLFIw_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

[mvdveer]

4 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

Thanks, I was looking around the other day but I was probably a bit early.

It's going to be fun to try out.

Saw it his morning but away for the weekend - will have to wait a while - bummer!

Justread through the beacon document - there is a lot there!

[Penatr8tor]

9 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Saw it his morning but away for the weekend - will have to wait a while - bummer!

Justread through the beacon document - there is a lot there!

Yup, there's a number of operating modes including a hybrid mode. All of which look interesting, but that's the hobby right? Experimenting and trying things out and perhaps... even a success here and there.

[Yezariael]

15 hours ago, KrauTech said:

It's out now

https://docs.beacon3d.com/contact/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2w9s-nWEG_4djAj69dSv1Vke_jNg-PUJMlFrv03Xdm_STWE63z9ZzLFIw_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

installed it on Friday, works perfect!

[Penatr8tor]

5 hours ago, Yezariael said:

installed it on Friday, works perfect!

Nice!

What model Beacon Probe? The new Rev H or the old Rev D model.

I have a Rev D style