VzBot 330

[Penatr8tor]

1 hour ago, TitusADuxass said:

I am quite disappointed to find that a thermal fuse is not part of the kit!

I believe the bed has an internal fuse inside the silicone heater pad. I did not use one on mine and I've experienced zero issues so far. Now... that doesn't provide any proof that mine or yours has an internal fuse. I searched the interwebs and didn't find an answer. I also went back and searched thru Steve Builds live streams where he's building a VZ235 (with ModBot) and neither of them added an external thermal fuse and neither did Nero3D when he did his VZ330 build. So... Is it safe to assume that it's not needed? That's up to you to decide. To err on the side of caution, the answer would have to be, yes, add a fuse. Note, I do not have one on mine.

 

[mvdveer]

You are correct - they have them already build in. From the mellow store:

 "Silicone Heater 150C Safeguard 110V 220V Heated Bed Build Plate For VzBoT" Below is a screen grab from the VZBot kit description.

 

[PFarm]

Nevermind didn't see the above post before posting.

Edited May 27, 2024 by PFarm

[TitusADuxass]

I did it!

I girded my loins, plugged her in and hit the switch - no magic smoke was released.

That CPAP fan is kin loud!!

No the fun begins - config.

Edited May 30, 2024 by TitusADuxass

[mvdveer]

1 hour ago, TitusADuxass said:

That CPAP fan is kin loud!!

I printed a muffler but that did zip

[TitusADuxass]

2 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

I printed a muffler but that did zip

I think I'll extend the hoses and put it outside on the window sill!

[Penatr8tor]

To address the noise...

The CPAP muffler kills about 20% of the noise. The enclosure kills about 50% of the noise. After that... the printer is about 3X louder than a Voron (my 2.4 is insanely quiet).

That being said... I never run my CPAP fan over 50% even on PLA. On ABS/ASA I'm maxing out at 30%, mostly running it at 25%. I know it doesn't sound like much, but that fan blows a serious amount of air and it blows 100% until the machine boots up and tells it to shut up.

I will also tell you that those four big 48V steppers are loud when they run slow (homing, etc.). The faster you run them, the quieter they are.

Not much different than owning a motorcycle... you want to go fast? Put a pipe on it, now it's loud. There are some trade-offs.

[TitusADuxass]

Okay - first config problem. CPAP pin status.

As per the instructions I put !PF8 in the GPIO settings.

When I run make for the Linux Process I get this error - Unknown initial pin 'PF8

[TitusADuxass]

Fixed - removed !PF8 from the GPIO settings and recompiled.

[TitusADuxass]

"fixing" that leads to new problems.

Now I have no serial number for the board in /dev/serial/by-id, the Cartographer is there but the board is no longer there.

Back to the beginning...

[Dirk]

CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure support) is a machine to support humans in breathing.

The huge hose, the setup on several systems resemble an ICU patient on life support.

I think it's an abomination and ugly.

There are more powerful fans that achieve the same result. And if there aren't how about someone with expertise design one?

[TitusADuxass]

Doh! Finger trouble - time to take a break

10 minutes ago, Dirk said:

CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure support) is a machine to support humans in breathing.

The huge hose, the setup on several systems resemble an ICU patient on life support.

I think it's an abomination and ugly.

There are more powerful fans that achieve the same result. And if there aren't how about someone with expertise design one?

It does strike me as being a bit OTT.

It will be looked at.

[TitusADuxass]

Doh! 

Finger trouble. 

She's up and running, time to take a break.

 

[Penatr8tor]

34 minutes ago, Dirk said:

CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure support) is a machine to support humans in breathing.

The huge hose, the setup on several systems resemble an ICU patient on life support.

I think it's an abomination and ugly.

There are more powerful fans that achieve the same result. And if there aren't how about someone with expertise design one?

Name one of those fans that doesn't mount on the toolhead adding mass to a printer that prints at 1000mm/s without blinking an eye.

There are reasons for things and compromises made to achieve certain goals. 

[Penatr8tor]

25 minutes ago, TitusADuxass said:

Doh! Finger trouble - time to take a break

It does strike me as being a bit OTT.

It will be looked at.

Don't think you're doomed until you get the machine running and dialed in.

You still have challenges ahead of you.

This whole CPAP is loud thing and I don't like the hose are all just knee jerk reactions to something new and different. It's not as bad as your mind might picture it to be.

Give it a chance.

[atrushing]

1 hour ago, Penatr8tor said:

Name one of those fans that doesn't mount on the toolhead adding mass to a printer that prints at 1000mm/s without blinking an eye.

There are reasons for things and compromises made to achieve certain goals. 

This assumes that a goal of printing at 1000mm/s is worth the other compromises.. I understand that the 247printing videos are entertaining but maybe I'm just getting too old to bother ricing my printers o.O

A Gdstime 5010 blower from a stock Stealthburner is rated at 5.36 CFM.
A pair of Gdstime 4010 blowers rated at 3.62 CFM x 2 = 7.24 CFM.
A pair of Honeybadger 4010 blowers (claimed 4.04 CFM @ 12000 RPM) x 2 = 8.08 CFM.

I have measured a 20% improvement for the 4010 blowers using my glued in air guide (and matching shroud) which would push the numbers from 7.24 to 8.68 CFM and 8.08 to 9.69 CFM.

BTW, the Mini Stealth toolhead weighs around 250g complete

2 hours ago, Dirk said:

There are more powerful fans that achieve the same result. And if there aren't how about someone with expertise design one?

This can take a lot of effort, experimentation, failures, time and money. I think we have become a bit spoiled with the "Bigger, Better, Faster, More!" direction that everything is taking lately.

[Penatr8tor]

12 minutes ago, atrushing said:

This assumes that a goal of printing at 1000mm/s is worth the other compromises.. I understand that the 247printing videos are entertaining but maybe I'm just getting too old to bother ricing my printers o.O

I'm certainly not printing at those speeds but, what I am doing is printing at 300mm/s with really good results. There are compromises, no question there but, they're really not that bad that you'd need or want to come up with something other than what the kit comes with.

If you've built a VzBot with the CPAP and you power it on for the first time... you are in for an 80db blast from the fan. I don't know why but it starts at 100% and doesn't turn off until the fan control recognizes the controller. Apart from that... the only other compromise is the 2 second lag when g-code ramps up the fan for overhangs and bridges, but that's easily accounted for in Orca.

[Dirk]

I do not have reflexes. One of the reasons I bought my voron, was because it looked good.

Printers will go faster than they are going now... shortly.

CPAP is not new. It is a very old method to help people on respiratory support wean off of it. It was around when I was 18, so at least that old.

Noise is not even my concern, with an encasing you can do a lot about the sound. I am waiting for this one, I have seen a beta version of:

a 5015 replacement

 

 

 

[Penatr8tor]

46 minutes ago, Dirk said:

CPAP is not new. It is a very old method to help people on respiratory support wean off of it. It was around when I was 18, so at least that old.

I seem to remember you asking me what I did for a living, and I responded with... I'm a Design Engineer for Medical Devices. Devices like CPAP machines. 

All kidding and ribbing aside...

The VzBot utilizes only the hose and blower components of a CPAP machine. Without a sealed plenum, such as a face mask, it can't accomplish the CPAP's intended function of maintaining constant pressure above atmospheric levels. In this case, air is simply being directed onto a nozzle. Therefore, the reference to CPAP in the context of the VzBot is due to the use of its parts, not because it aims to replicate the CPAP's function.

[Dirk]

I know you are cool

I also know what a cpap does. I also know that a positive airway pressure is neither obtained nor maintained in a printer  I also know that you know much more about the machine than I do.

But I still think it is ugly to put such a hose on a printer. If you want to blow, why not just blow? Like the SB in the video does.

Maybe it is just my association with it and many people like to have a respiratory tube in their printers they pay 2000 euros / dollars for.

I don't.

That was all I wanted to say

No reflexes, just feelings

[mvdveer]

9 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

his whole CPAP is loud thing and I don't like the hose are all just knee jerk reactions to something new and different. It's not as bad as your mind might picture it to be.

Had the same reaction but it I don't think there is another system that can supply the cooling this thing does. Yes it looks ugly, but it is functional. And we are not entering beauty pageants. I have now come to actually like the look of the beast called the VZBot330AWD with it Alien like CPAP hose running from the toolhead.

I run the CPAP at 25% for ABS, sometimes lower, though cannot go lower then 10% as it only kicks in at 10%power . PLA at 40% after a lot of experimenting and speed at  300mm/s with very good results.

Maybe we should open another thread and Not Hijack @TitusADuxass's build?

[Penatr8tor]

@mvdveer Agreed. I've been running my VzBot most days while working on my 2.4 refurb and it's a really reliable workhorse that spits out great looking print lickety split. And it's doing it faster than my other printers. I hadn't printed with ABS in a really long time, if I had to print something for a printer it has been ASA, having left ABS in the rear-view mirror. So, I'm building a 1st gen, Vector3D threaded insert press from spare parts and, I had this Overture light blue ABS hanging around so I loaded it up and printed a part and WOW... I had no idea how well ABS prints in this machine. But even so, no matter what I throw at it, it prints. And I have no problems with the cooling, in fact the VZ will blow your part off the build plate if you crank everything to 11. 

@TitusADuxass Has all the parts there already and you know what they say... 

A cooling solution in hand is worth two in the container ship. 

1 hour ago, mvdveer said:

I run the CPAP at 25% for ABS, sometimes lower, though cannot go lower then 10% as it only kicks in at 10%power . PLA at 40% after a lot of experimenting and speed at  300mm/s with very good results.

Yup, my experience exactly. 300 for regular stuff and 200-ish for really nice parts. Fan number match mine and also stalls below 10%. My RSCS only runs at 100%. I'm thinking cheap fans from the kit. Easy enough to swap out once I get my Voron back on it's feet.

 

[TitusADuxass]

7 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Maybe we should open another thread and Not Hijack @TitusADuxass's build?

Not necessary, I get snippets of useful information from the exchanges.

[TitusADuxass]

I'm slowly working my way through the configuration.

Can somebody explain what is meant here.

##### For Fly Super 8 V1.3 ####
### And Mellow Kit  ####
### For Fly Super pro 8, the SPI bus is spi1A
### For Fly Super 8 V1.3, the SPI bus is spi3

If I uncomment that line I get -

Option 'spi_bus' is not valid in section 'tmc5160 stepper_x'

If I reapply the comment (#) everything seems to be okay. But if I then buzz the steppers I get - 

Unable to write tmc spi 'stepper_x' register GLOBALSCALER

@mvdveer did this (

[static_digital_output disable_max31865]
pins: !PF8

fix the problem for you, if yes where did you paste it or does it not matter?

[TitusADuxass]

Are jumpers needed on the drivers themselves?

The few datasheets that I've found show them with two jumpers in (SD & SPI pins).