VzBot 330

[Penatr8tor]

I also faced a number of challenges with my Vzbot build. It's definitely not for 1st time builders as you'll have to do quite a bit to get it dialed in but once it is... It will run like a kitchen appliance. My VZ is my goto printer and apart from a 20 min thermal soak... it will print ABS like it was PLA. PLA is not a big deal either but the difference in bed temps means you need to recalibrate nozzle height. I think about 0.8mm difference between ABS and PLA on mine. Once I get my Voron back up and running, I'll install Beacon Contact to hopefully make the transition automatic.

As for the PEI sheet getting trashed... Yeah, that happens. I have the 1st layer of a Voron cube etched into my 1st Voron 2.4 plate so welcome to the club. 

[Dirk]

1 hour ago, TitusADuxass said:

either way too high or way too low

That is not cartographers doing.

It probably means your build is not perfect. Which doesn't surprise me.

I am sure any other decent probe is going to give you the same problem.

I can recommend using the axis twist procedure, which might solve your problem.

https://www.klipper3d.org/Axis_Twist_Compensation.html

[TitusADuxass]

18 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

As for the PEI sheet getting trashed... Yeah, that happens. I have the 1st layer of a Voron cube etched into my 1st Voron 2.4 plate so welcome to the club. 

I class PEI sheets and Nozzles as consumables so it's not a big deal.

 

I've been looking at your printer.cfg for the [bed_mesh]

Yours is:
[bed_mesh]
algorithm: bicubic
speed: 300
mesh_min: 30, 50
mesh_max: 300, 250
probe_count: 15, 15

Whereas mine is:

#[bed_mesh]
#speed: 400
#horizontal_move_z: 5
#mesh_min: 30, 30
#mesh_max: 275, 275
#probe_count: 40, 40
#mesh_pps: 2, 2
#algorithm: bicubic
#bicubic_tension: 0.2

Yours is almost dumbed down compared to mine.

So I've copied and pasted yours into my printer.cfg.

And...

It's printed 2 successful 1st layer patches in succession.

So the settings that were given to me by the Cartographer discord people are over the top.

@Dirk I'll excuse your imperfect build comment.

 

[Dirk]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:45 AM, TitusADuxass said:

Does this look normal/okay?

Haven't looked at your thread for a while cause you guys were talking about boring stuff...

But this looks normal for a mellow vzbot sheet.

What you see, is cartographer reading the metal sheet that is inside your pei sheet.

I have seen many from mellow, they all look like this. With a channel in the metal sheet.

Your variance over the whole plate is 0.1, so it will not affect you if you use a first layer that is larger than 0.1.

[Dirk]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:49 AM, TitusADuxass said:

What the hell is going on?

This is a scan of your bed, with a huge amount of electrical magnetic. interference in the Eddy current it is receiving.

Usually it has to do with

-a bed that is actively heating,

-badly taken care of wiring above the no go zone of your sensor.

-wiring that are bad quality and unearthed.

- too high speeds and acceleration.

So... First try running the bed mesh without the heater turned on.

You can use this macro for it:

Quote

 

[gcode_macro BED_MESH_CALIBRATE]

rename_existing: _BED_MESH_CALIBRATE

gcode:

    {% set TARGET_TEMP = printer.heater_bed.target %}

    M140 S0

    _BED_MESH_CALIBRATE {rawparams}

    M140 S{TARGET_TEMP}#

 

 

Second... Do not go crazy speeds while doing a bed mesh: 400mm/s is plenty speed.

And: check sources of interference

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2024 by Dirk

[Dirk]

9 minutes ago, TitusADuxass said:

Dirk I'll excuse your imperfect build comment.

This is a common attitude of the vzBot builders population.

Because they have paid 2000$ for a kit, they think it will print perfectly.

You still have to go back to basics.

And do things one by one.

With the vzBot it's harder... Mainly, because of what I told you I'm the beginning: it is badly engineered.

So it's still not your fault.

[TitusADuxass]

This might not look to good, but it's the best result that I've had so far.

This was printed directly after the single 1st layer patch print.

As you can see, Z is way too high, but it's high on all patches - so @Dirk it is down to the cartographer.

[TitusADuxass]

7 minutes ago, Dirk said:

This is a common attitude of the vzBot builders population.

Because they have paid 2000$ for a kit, they think it will print perfectly.

You still have to go back to basics.

And do things one by one.

With the vzBot it's harder... Mainly, because of what I told you I'm the beginning: it is badly engineered.

So it's still not your fault.

Dirk, your comments could be taken as offensive. I'll excuse you again because English is not your mother tongue. I do not and have never thought that it will print perfectly. 

So what is badly engineered (and what are your qualifications for saying so)?

And please keep your opinions about VzBot builders to yourself. We come here for assistance not wild assed statements like yours.

[Dirk]

30 minutes ago, TitusADuxass said:

I'll excuse you again because English is not your mother tongue.

I would have said it exactly the same in Dutch. Because it is my opinion. 

Nobody is perfect. The biggest flaw is in recognizing that you aren't. (I am talking about me, not you do not worry).

I was trying to help / assist with the things I do have knowledge of. But you are right. I am not qualified in any of this stuff. I was simply repeating arguments of wise people, that are, that were in line with my own experience. 

But I can take a hint, and will refrain from further commenting on any of your posts. 

[mvdveer]

8 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

I also faced a number of challenges with my Vzbot build. It's definitely not for 1st time builders as you'll have to do quite a bit to get it dialed in but once it is... It will run like a kitchen appliance.

9 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

I'm going to ditch the Cartographer.

As you would have possibly seen, I am doing the same, switching all to BEACON. The Beacon contact I have on the VZBot and Micron has been working flawlessly through about 60hours printing time on each printer.

VZBot is a challenging build without a manual and a challenge to dial in, but once done - it is a great printer. And with BEACON CONTACT - it just works -  @Penatr8tor - like a kitchen appliance I think after building 10 Voron's, a Rat Rig V-minion and  a VZBot , I can justify this comment. In my humble opnion, Cartographer IS NOT as reliable as BEACON in the long run.

@TitusADuxass Feel proud of yourself for attempting and finishing the build! Take it slow with the tuning - don't rush things. Took me most of a day to get the bed level, fiddling with the bedscrews, swapping from silicone to springs and back again. (And will have to do it all over again as I have just received my all metal CNC Z- and Bed Kit). Even more time getting the first layer patches to my satisfaction. (BEACON CONTACT has now eliminated this hassle)

Got there with the printers running cartographer by doing what I describe below. You will still need to watch the first layer and do baby-stepping during a print. It is not SET-AND-FORGET like Beacon Contact unfortunately.

With Cartographer, before you take it off try this:

• Heat bed to printing temperature and allow to soak for 10 min
• CARTOGRAPHER_CALIBRATE
• G1 Z0 F60
• Adjust Z-Offset in Mainsail, NOT klipperscreen
• Z_OFFSET_APPLY_PROBE
• SAVE_CONFIG
• Heat bed and soak again
• Repeat from G1 Z0 F60 untill you have no more need to adjust Z-Offset
• Change your START_PRINT / PRINT_START macro to include a 10min heatsoak after reaching bed temperature

If you can - spend the money on a BEACON H probe - you won't regret it. In the interim try the above and see if you can get the printer functional with cartographer untill beacon arrives. Simple process of uninstallin cartographer and installing BEACON.

You have achieved something few others on this forum have - build a VZBot with all the challenges that come with it - AND you willget it printing perfectly and I am sure it will become your go-to printer like it has for others.

It is not Voron vs VZBot - it is overcoming the challenge of a difficult build - you have!

 

 

 

[TitusADuxass]

I haven't quite surrendered on the Cartographer, I've just ordered a magnetic sheet for a Voron 350. My Voron 300 does not have the same problem. It's worth a try, and if it has the same issue I'll just return it with a note saying that it's not compatible with a Cartographer probe.

@mvdveer thanks, I'll try your recommendations when I get home tonight.

The Beacon H is on the list, I'll need the low profile version correct?

I am more that pleased with my progress on the VzBot, I knew that it would be a challenge - that's why I bought it. I also knew that it wouldn't just be a case of screwing it together and off we go. It took me ages to get my v2.4 up to where it could printed how I expected it to.

I was a bit p***ed off yesterday with comments that were posted from someone who had read something somewhere.

[mvdveer]

5 minutes ago, TitusADuxass said:

The Beacon H is on the list, I'll need the low profile version correct

That is correct yes.

8 minutes ago, TitusADuxass said:

was a bit p***ed off yesterday with comments that were posted from someone who had read something somewhere.

I can relate.

Hope you get the machine going soon so you can enjoy it to its fullest

[TitusADuxass]

@mvdveer - I really do have the will power akin to the breaking strain of a wet tea bag.

One low profile BEACON H probe is on it's way - 85€ eek!! Tis only money and the last shirt has no pockets.

[mvdveer]

14 minutes ago, TitusADuxass said:

@mvdveer - I really do have the will power akin to the breaking strain of a wet tea bag.

One low profile BEACON H probe is on it's way - 85€ eek!! Tis only money and the last shirt has no pockets.

Still cheaper than geting one to Australia. But worth it I believe.

[atrushing]

On 6/24/2024 at 10:00 AM, TitusADuxass said:

I've just ordered a magnetic sheet for a Voron 350. My Voron 300 does not have the same problem. It's worth a try

I came across an interesting video regarding the N/S pattern of alternating polarity on magnetic build plate sheets. Apparently you can re-magnetize the sheet and it looks like the density of the pattern can be modified depending on the thickness of the magnets you use in the stack. (The magnetizing tool starts at 8:40 but the rest of the video is worth watching). A finer pattern might be better damped by the steel build-plate as @Penatr8tor noted about his magnet sheet..

It isn't exactly the cheapest solution, but it would be a lot easier than removing the magnet sheet, cleaning all of the adhesive and applying a new sheet.

Before @ 4:20

After @ 10:00

Edited June 26, 2024 by atrushing

[TitusADuxass]

7 hours ago, atrushing said:

I came across an interesting video regarding the N/S pattern of alternating polarity on magnetic build plate sheets. Apparently you can re-magnetize the sheet and it looks like the density of the pattern can be modified depending on the thickness of the magnets you use in the stack. (The magnetizing tool starts at 8:40 but the rest of the video is worth watching). A finer pattern might be better damped by the steel build-plate as @Penatr8tor noted about his magnet sheet..

It isn't exactly the cheapest solution, but it would be a lot easier than removing the magnet sheet, cleaning all of the adhesive and applying a new sheet.

Before @ 4:20

After @ 10:00

Thanks, that looks interesting. 

[TitusADuxass]

Well, I fought long and hard with the Cartographer, but in the end I surrendered and removed it from the configuration.

I can now repeatedly print 5 first layer patches, even after I've powered down and restarted.

It took a lot of test runs.

 

Time for a clean up and time to order a new PEI sheet.

I do hope that Beacon is a better option.

[TitusADuxass]

So the latest thing - it would not constantly extrude. If I asked for a 25mm extrude, it would give me about 20mm and then the extruder would start skipping.

I fitted a new nozzle, it still did it.

So I changed filament, it still did it.

Then I found the problem, if I screw the extruder thumbscrew all the way in it causes skipping. Backing out the thumbscrew a few turns and the problem goes away. 

Then an M3 nut fell out of the toolhead, so it looks like I'll have find out where that came from.

 

[TitusADuxass]

I'm back, I've been busy socialising (i.e. white water rafting and drinking).

Now that I've found the problem things are going along nicely. As I said in my last post, every time I tried to get a good first layer it would stop extruding, now I am unable to say if this was a nozzle block or if it was just the filament/extruder slipping. However, since backing off the tension screw the problem has gone away.

I busy running through a few basic tests and the results have been promising.

My next task is to import @Penatr8tor's profile into Orca and then get stuck into the Orca calibration tests.

[TitusADuxass]

Hi @Penatr8tor do you have a PRIME_BLOB macro?

I get an unknown command when printing.

[Penatr8tor]

1 hour ago, TitusADuxass said:

Hi @Penatr8tor do you have a PRIME_BLOB macro?

I get an unknown command when printing.

Yes, that's why when I posted my printer.cfg, I also posted all the supporting .cfg files so that you wouldn't get unknown commands. 

Below is a link to the post if you want to hunt down the macro.

I don't know if my "Machine Start G-Code" from Orca was posted so here's that as well.

G28
M190 S[bed_temperature_initial_layer_single] ;set bed temp 
M109 S150                                    ;set nozzle to 150c for probing
BED_MESH_CALIBRATE
BED_MESH_PROFILE LOAD=default
G90
G1 Z20 F3000
G1 X10 F6000
G1 Y10 F6000
M109 S[nozzle_temperature_initial_layer]    ; set nozzle temp 
PRIME_BLOB 
G92 E0.0                                    ; reset extruder distance position

 

[TitusADuxass]

11 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

Yes, that's why when I posted my printer.cfg, I also posted all the supporting .cfg files so that you wouldn't get unknown commands. 

 

That was a long time ago, I've slept many times since then. 

Sometimes I have the memory span of a goldfish.

[TitusADuxass]

14 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

I don't know if my "Machine Start G-Code" from Orca was posted so here's that as well.

G28
M190 S[bed_temperature_initial_layer_single] ;set bed temp 
M109 S150                                    ;set nozzle to 150c for probing
BED_MESH_CALIBRATE
BED_MESH_PROFILE LOAD=default
G90
G1 Z20 F3000
G1 X10 F6000
G1 Y10 F6000
M109 S[nozzle_temperature_initial_layer]    ; set nozzle temp 
PRIME_BLOB 
G92 E0.0                                    ; reset extruder distance position

I already had your Machine Start G-Code, that's why I got the Prime_Blob issue.

It's all fixed now. Muchosgrassyarse.

[TitusADuxass]

@Penatr8tor I do like that Prime Blob. 

[TitusADuxass]

So I've been through all the Orca Calibration tests and printed a Califlower.

The X & Y are within 0,42%, Angle Skew is 0,10deg.

These are more than acceptable for a FDM printer, I don't think I'll be chasing zeros.

I'm not too impressed with the hotend, I get better results with the Rapido 2 UHF in my v2.4, but I'll live with the 65 mm3/s.

This was the Max flow rate test (starting at 50 mm3/s.