Eddie Current Probe Comparison - a PERSONAL viewpoint

[Dirk]

On 6/6/2024 at 10:08 AM, mvdveer said:

I'll need to fit one as well.

It looks like the Cartographers also will need a soft brush to wipe off the nozzle...

 

 

 

 

[mvdveer]

 

After about 6 weeks of use, I have decided that  am changing the cartographer probes to Beacon - even if the USB cable will be adding to the umbilicus. Beacon just is more reliable in my opinion.

Been getting varying results on the Cartographer probes and find I constantly need to adjust the first layer height. I also personally believe that the beacon software and firmware is superior to cartographer. 

This is an individual choice, based on my personal experience. Others are welcome to differ - again it is their choice.

 

[leo]

This is a great discussion post. Lots of information for me.

However there is one important point for me that no one have discussed. The beacon contact. After a quick read of beacon's document on the contact probing, I think it is actually a rather simple principle and should be do-able on any of these similar probes.

Does any of these probe have the feature? or would them have it in future?

Another question I want to ask is what is the actual cause of burning the coil? Is it the metal brush get into physical contact with the probe, or the probe's internal current gets too high when moving across (but not touching) a large metal object?

[Dirk]

1 hour ago, leo said:

a rather simple principle

if you only take the principle in account: sure.

[mvdveer]

3 hours ago, leo said:

However there is one important point for me that no one have discussed. The beacon contact

There is a thread on this. I am using it on both printers with Beacon and find it VERY good. 

 

3 hours ago, leo said:

Another question I want to ask is what is the actual cause of burning the coil? Is it the metal brush get into physical contact with the probe

In the case of the IDM probe - I think it was a faulty coil.

With the cartographer probes - I damaged them with my nozzle scrub routine as they made contact with the brush during this routine

[leo]

3 hours ago, mvdveer said:

I damaged them with my nozzle scrub routine as they made contact with the brush during this routine

Thanks for the info. I wonder why none of them have made a protective coating on it, or a thin layer of plastic cover.

[7milesup]

17 minutes ago, leo said:

Thanks for the info. I wonder why none of them have made a protective coating on it, or a thin layer of plastic cover.

How long would a plastic cover last? Probably not very long, plus it adds another layer (no pun intended) to the manufacturing process and, thus, cost. 

[leo]

22 minutes ago, 7milesup said:

How long would a plastic cover last? Probably not very long, plus it adds another layer (no pun intended) to the manufacturing process and, thus, cost. 

I understand it not adding it to manufacturing process. However I don't think the plastic cover will be wear out at all, most of our printer have lots of plastic parts, even printed, not manufactured. So a custom mod with a printed cover sound prefect, just surprise haven't seen any (or maybe there are, i didn't know of).

[mvdveer]

5 hours ago, leo said:

Thanks for the info. I wonder why none of them have made a protective coating on it, or a thin layer of plastic cover.

Maybe it would interfere with the function - it is a high frequency magnetic probe after all.

[Dirk]

4 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Maybe it would interfere with the function

Here is one made by Cartographer for the Cartographer probe. No idea if it will fit on your Beacon.

I do not use it, because I never have warped pieces or a steel brush.

If you would cover the coil up, like the BTT Eddy does, it would interfere with accuracy. This one just protects the capacitor and the thermistor on the coil.

I still wouldn't use a steel brush with it though.

cover_board.STL

[leo]

4 minutes ago, Dirk said:

If you would cover the coil up, like the BTT Eddy does, it would interfere with accuracy. 

Wait, the eddy current is something to do with magnetic or metallic parts, plastic should be transparent to them. and I recall the beacon community have said "PEI is transparent to the probe"

[Dirk]

I never liked the wait command in assembler... I still get hairs on my neck when someone tells me that..

but.. you try with a piece of plastic and see how it works.

good luck.

[WessPless]

Guys any recommendation (based on your experience) what version of Carthographer3D (USB or CAN) you found better - easier to install/use/manage/upgrade ? I have BTT EBB2209 CAN but thinking that USB version (connected directly to RasPi board) might be easier to manage - for example flashing 

What do you think ?

 

[PFarm]

I prefer the Beacon probe with the touch feature.

[WessPless]

2 hours ago, PFarm said:

I prefer the Beacon probe with the touch feature.

Because of touch feature only ?  I heard that Cartographer have that future as well - still in beta but it's there .... what other things, characteristics, made you decide switch to Beacon ? 

Beacon is also four times more expensive

I saw you pic that you got Cartographer3D .... so you switched that to Beacon ? 

 

[xyleth]

I'm in the Cartographer tap beta.  It works really well and has transformed my printer, I really struggled with first layers before (don't know if that was carto related or not) - now it is just press print and go with perfect first layers every time.

The beta has taken longer than expected I think as they've been fine tuning the install and supporting scripts for determining the correct threshold settings.  There is an active discussion now about release so I doubt it will be too much longer.

I haven't tried a Beacon so can't give a direct comparison.

[WessPless]

Did you had TAP before ? or you went directly to Carto or maybe using both ? 

I know Carto have that new feature but I'm still thinking that TAP is better in the homming especially when you changing nozzle - with Carto and Becon you always will need to adjust probe mount height - with TAP you don't care 

[xyleth]

Never had TAP, my Voron came out of the box with Carto. 
 

I’ve changed my nozzle twice since applying the beta code and neither time did I have to make any changes, it just worked. 

[WessPless]

OK understand - Try to switch from regular v6 to Vulcano then you will see the problem 

[xyleth]

Well yes, but that’s hardly a nozzle change. More of a hot end replacement, not a surprise that needs adjustment!

[Penatr8tor]

46 minutes ago, WessPless said:

I know Carto have that new feature but I'm still thinking that TAP is better in the homming especially when you changing nozzle - with Carto and Becon you always will need to adjust probe mount height - with TAP you don't care 

Incorrect - Beacon contact you never need to re-calibrate when changing nozzles and/or build plates (PEI textured, smooth, etc.) Beacon in proximity mode yes, but contact no.

[WessPless]

6 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

Incorrect - Beacon contact you never need to re-calibrate when changing nozzles and/or build plates (PEI textured, smooth, etc.) Beacon in proximity mode yes, but contact no.

are you sure ? when you change v6 to vulcano and back - vulcano nozzle length is two three times bigger than regular v6 so distance from probe to bet will drastically increase/change so I think it needs to be adjusted ..... or I do not fully understand how it works ?

 

Edited August 11, 2024 by WessPless
add image

[Penatr8tor]

41 minutes ago, WessPless said:

are you sure ? when you change v6 to vulcano and back - vulcano nozzle length is two three times bigger than regular v6 so distance from probe to bet will drastically increase/change so I think it needs to be adjusted ..... or I do not fully understand how it works ?

https://filament2print.com/6232-tm_thickbox_default/e3d-nozzle-v6-volcano-hardened-steel.jpg

Yup 100% sure.

With that said... there's a minimum useable range of ~2mm, if I remember correctly with Beacon it's 2mm - 3.5mm from the bed and it will also be similar with BTT Eddy and Cartographer. If whatever you decide to screw into your hotend exceeds that range... you'll also have to move the sensor closer and... you'll have to move your part cooling fan ducts down as well and at that point I would defer to @xyleth's statement, "More of a hot end replacement, not a surprise that needs adjustment!" I've run brass, steel, CHT and diamond tip nozzles and I can confirm that while all of them are V6... they all are ~0.5mm different in length than each other and that's enough to have to recalibrate but also not enough that you would need to if you had a touch or contact eddy current probe.

[WessPless]

Yeah, I get that - your explanation totally make sense - thank you guys for your time and presenting your point of view - appreciate it 

[sleepster217]

On 4/21/2024 at 7:29 AM, mvdveer said:

Just a quick update and an embarrassing story. 

This happened on the Micron 180.

As you know I commented that I had a IDM probe fail - Coil shorted/disconnected and then errors on abnormal temperature readings. (BTW - this probe's coil is destroyed)

Replaced this with a Cartographer probe - after some 20hours printing (which by the way is irrelevant in this instance) - Coil shorted/disconnected

Well onto the USB beacon - replaced the cartographer probe - re-started the same print, and not long after  - Coil shorted/disconnected -- What The......

Restarted the print and observed - failed at EXACTLY the same part of the print's first layer - in the back corner. (X165 Y 5)

The light went on - I read a user posting not so long ago (sorry cannot remember who, but THANK YOU) about having to define an exclusion zone due to nozzle brush interfering with the probe. It turns out the print failed whilst in the area of the nozzle brush. The probe, protruding to the rear of the printer was moving over the nozzle brush, and most likely touching it - that seemed to short the probe and caused the disconnection.  Let's see if this actually was it.

Back to the slicer and moved the parts forward on the plate - resliced, uploaded and........ Successful print.

So BEWARE of EDDIE current probes and NOZZLE Brushes. Made me decide to change all the brass nozzle brushes to silicone. (Add that to the To-Do-List)

I am not sure if u have or not but I have the stick on bamboo labs silicone nozzle brushes on mine and can link the stl I used if u want it but u may have all rdy changed over