Eddie Current Probe Comparison - a PERSONAL viewpoint

[Sparkss]

On 4/21/2024 at 6:39 PM, mvdveer said:

Just to clarify - I don't think it is the amount of hours per se, but the amount of time the probe actually moves over the brush before it gets damaged. In small prints, where the toolhead does not move close to Y0, this would not occur. Moral the story as you said - don't use a nozzle brush with Eddie current probes

You mentioned shorting a couple of coils. Have you tried to get replacement coil boards to see if you can revive the probe? I shorted yet another. I was troubleshooting an SB2209 (RP2040) and mis-aligned the SB0000 pins and sent 24v down the 5v rail. Fried the SB naturally, but also shorted the coil on the Cart3D. That'll teach me to play around with the front on a Stealthburner when the printer is powered up *sigh*. 

[mvdveer]

24 minutes ago, Sparkss said:

Have you tried to get replacement coil boards

I have received a replacement coil board. Soldering I have now mastered to a degree where I am happy - getting good joints without BIG BLOPS of solder.

Desoldering - that is another matter. Attempted to desolder the coil. Used a "de-soldering pump", as well as well as some desolder braid without much luck. Concerned if I continue,, I may damage the unit. Will have to practice on some damaged electronic boards before attempting to repair the cartographer probe. In due time......

[chrisalbertson]

I don't know how the device is constructed but sometimes you have to unsolder many pins at the same time.  Like if you want to remove an IC from a PCB, all 16 pins have to be hot at the same time.   You can't do that with a handheld solder iron.  The solution is "hot air".   Hot air solder stations used to be very expensive but now they are affordable and also the only way to deal with surface mount components.

 

The old method we were taught in lab class in the 80s was when we needed to remove a 16-pin through hole IC was to cut the leads and toss the chip then unsolder each of the the 16-pins one at a time.  The idea is that if the part is broken and you intend to toss it in the trash, there is no harm in cutting it into pieces and then removing each piece.

 

But today when "everyone" uses hot air solder stations, removing the chip is quicker than cutting it apart.

[PFarm]

As chrisalbertson mentioned a soldering station with hot air gun are cheap on Aliexpress. Bought mine years ago and still working! Hot air gun with low temperature solder works well when trying to remove parts from a board.

[mvdveer]

4 hours ago, chrisalbertson said:

But today when "everyone" uses hot air solder stations

I got one for a birthday 3 years ago - never thought of using it. Thanks. The heat won't damage the electronics, seeing it will be directed at quite a large area?. However, I'll do some YouTubing and learn yet another skill. Thanks for the tip!

[PFarm]

1 hour ago, mvdveer said:

The heat won't damage the electronics, seeing it will be directed at quite a large area?

Use the right tip on the heat gun and Kapton tape on areas of the PCB you want to protect from heat.

[mvdveer]

Thanks - will give it a go

[Sparkss]

13 hours ago, mvdveer said:

I have received a replacement coil board. Soldering I have now mastered to a degree where I am happy - getting good joints without BIG BLOPS of solder.

Desoldering - that is another matter. Attempted to desolder the coil. Used a "de-soldering pump", as well as well as some desolder braid without much luck. Concerned if I continue,, I may damage the unit. Will have to practice on some damaged electronic boards before attempting to repair the cartographer probe. In due time......

I have a replacement coil on the way as well. Please share your experiences with the swapout when you do it. i will be following along :). Sounds like perhaps I also need to start looking for a hot air station. I had been thinking about one for a while now, this might be just the justification (excuse) that I need

[Dirk]

16 hours ago, Sparkss said:

mis-aligned

I use this. I printed it AFTER I burnt an MCU and an optotap by the same error.

I also use this, which gives more space and a bit of vision with the sb2209.

 

Carto is protected against reversed polarity. But 24v will surely burn the several chips on it.

[Dirk]

16 hours ago, mvdveer said:

I have received a replacement coil board.

So.. was this for the IDM probe or did you also damage one of your other cartographer probes?

I have done a few such similar repairs. I do remember not all of them went without problems.

And I remember kapton tape was a very important part of it all  

[Sparkss]

2 hours ago, Dirk said:

I use this. I printed it AFTER I burnt an MCU and an optotap by the same error.

I also use this, which gives more space and a bit of vision with the sb2209.

Carto is protected against reversed polarity. But 24v will surely burn the several chips on it.

Thanks, grabbed the first one and will print it shortly, it looks like it will help. I had moved the pins "down" a row, the "protector" would at least stop that for the most part . Can't use the different body though, I use the version that includes the 2 filament sensors + the mods for the filament cutter.

[mvdveer]

7 hours ago, Dirk said:

So.. was this for the IDM probe or did you also damage one of your other cartographer probes?

The IDM was given temperature errors and disabled temperature compensation. The replacement was for the damaged cartographer coil - the supplier sent one out after I enquired about faulty coils - no charge. Another reason to go cartographer rather than IDM

[G_T]

I hope this isn't OT, and if it is, feel free to ignore!

I'm working on a printer that runs hotter than most. Is it likely that eddy current probes would not be usable for bed up to 140C in a chamber up to 90C, printing at >>300C? I'm asking because replacing the print head will be the next major job on my printer. Currently routinely print 120C bed extrude up to 330C and chamber 78C. Bed is being swapped for a 140C (really, 150C) bed over the next few days. Thanks!

Gerald

[Dirk]

3 hours ago, G_T said:

runs hotter than most

That makes you a minority of a minority group.

You might want to consider checking out similar configurations that are also posted on the forum, build diaries.

Ah.. you are the one documenting your build

So, if you have any STM chips in your chamber and those need to withstand temperatures of around 80 degrees, they will not last long.

this goes for all current can boards. Which all use an STM chip ( correct me if I am wrong)

They are certified for max temps of 85 degrees.

Cartographer also has an STM chip.

There is an upcoming version using a chip and accessories that are certified for higher temperatures. But it's not there yet.

Since you are in to this, you will also know that not just the chip needs considering. But also small things like wiring cables and even the reset buttons on the pcb need to withstand the 80+ temperatures.

If I would build a toolhead that had to run in a chamber of 80+, which I never would cause I don't see it's use for me, I would place all electronics outside the chamber.

Otherwise you will have a high maintenance and a high cost for replacing defective parts.

 

Good luck with it.

Edited May 22, 2024 by Dirk

[PFarm]

@mvdveer Thanks for the info you posted in this thread. I've ordered the Cartographer Probe and CNC bracket. I like that it's already flashed for USB/Can. Being Can is a bonus for me since I'm running the SB2209. Maybe I've missed this in the thread but since the probe has the 120 ohms resistor solder on the probe I assume you remove the resistor on the SB2209 when you tap into the SB connections for Can (resistor is install on the last Can device)

[mvdveer]

1 hour ago, PFarm said:

since the probe has the 120 ohms resistor solder on the probe I assume you remove the resistor on the SB2209 when you tap into the SB connections for Can

I have not removed any resistors, just spliced the probe in before the toolhead board.

[Dirk]

1 hour ago, PFarm said:

I assume you remove the resistor on the SB2209

I know you asked @mvdveer, but I can tell you what the guys told me that know more than me (Esoterical and the guy who makes Cartographer: Richard). 

Cartographer is indeed the last node on the CAN bus, but because it is a short distance, they call it a 'spur'. But the Cartographer is standard terminated with a 120 ohm, because it apparently caused concerns.

When you have a spur, you officially do not need to terminate it, but since it is terminated, you can remove the 120 ohm jumper on the sb2209.

I tried both with the jumper on and off on the SB2209. My CAN network did not give any problems.

So the short answer to your question is: You can safely remove the 120 ohm terminator on the SB2209. 

[Dirk]

On 4/30/2024 at 12:07 AM, mvdveer said:

In due time......

No idea if you have had the chance to practice desoldering on damaged pcb boards, but if you have managed it, I wanted to share a handy jig I ran across when I needed to solder a Cartographer that I received for testing.

 

It makes the soldering job a whole lot easier and prevents upside down, rotated, or any other soldering accidents.

It is almost hidden on the cartographer github, so hard to run-into.

 

In case anyone will need it...

[mvdveer]

53 minutes ago, Dirk said:

No idea if you have had the chance to practice desoldering on damaged pcb boards

Got a lot of components lying around - no idea what their exact function is , but helped me get the cartographer de-soldered and replaced. Already mounted and working like new.

I just used the beacon soldering jigs which I had printed

[PFarm]

Maybe I've missed the answer when reading through the thread, but are you still using Kamp for those of you using the Cartographer probe? Are you using the Bambulab-style nozzle brush? I know @Penatr8tor has posted a few Printable links to mod our nozzle scrub to that style. I've also ordered the Bambulab silicone nozzle wipes.

Edited June 5, 2024 by PFarm

[mvdveer]

53 minutes ago, PFarm said:

are you still using Kamp

No, Klipper has this now built in natively.

BED_MESH_CALIBRATE ADAPTIVE=1

 

[mvdveer]

1 hour ago, PFarm said:

Are you using the Bambulab-style nozzle brush?

Have ordered some and if using beacon with contact or cartographer equivalent when available - this type of nozzle brush will be essential. No wire bristles to damage the coil. Yet another conversion to be done 

[TitusADuxass]

7 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Have ordered some and if using beacon with contact or cartographer equivalent when available - this type of nozzle brush will be essential. No wire bristles to damage the coil. Yet another conversion to be done 

Thanks for the reminder.

Just ordered 2 packs. 

I'm going to upgrade the v2.4 to Cartographer and I'm thinking about a nozzle wipe for the vz330.

[mvdveer]

59 minutes ago, TitusADuxass said:

I'm thinking about a nozzle wipe for the vz330.

Now with Beacon Contact, I'll need to fit one as well.

[PFarm]

I received the Cartographer probe and mounting bracket for SB. Install the probe and silicone brush on the 2.4 to follow.